Tuesday, July 29, 2008

The Liriano Conundrum

On Sunday afternoon, Francisco Liriano had his worst outing in his last six starts, surrendering four runs on eight hits over six innings of work for the Class-AAA Rochester Red Wings. That's the bad news. The good news? Liriano still displayed some dominance, striking out nine and walking one, and still picked up a victory, his seventh in a row. The majority of the damage in the outing came on a three-run homer, but for the most part Liriano still pitched effectively and still showed that he's ready for a promotion to the big leagues.

Of course, that much has been obvious for some time now. Over his past 11 starts in Rochester, Liriano is 10-0 with a 2.93 ERA and 80-to-13 strikeout-to-walk ratio in 71 innings of work. He's missing bats, he's limiting base-runners and he's pitching deep into games. Reports are that his velocity is creeping back up toward the mid-90s and his slider is biting again. These would be encouraging signs for any young minor-league pitcher, but they are especially exciting for Liriano, whom we watched dominate major-league hitters just two years ago.

It would certainly be unfair to expect Liriano to come up to the majors and pitch the way he did in 2006, when he went 12-3 with a 2.16 ERA and 144-to-34 strikeout-to-walk ratio over 121 innings. Still, it doesn't seem at all unreasonable to believe that Liriano could step in and immediately become one of the best pitchers in this rotation. This could provide a boost to the 2008 Twins similar to the one he provided the 2006 Twins. For him to continue to throw innings and dominate down in Triple-A seems nothing short of wasteful.

The issue, naturally, is that there is only room for five pitchers in the Twins' rotation and -- while it's entirely possible that Liriano would be superior to all of them -- none of the five current starters have exactly earned a demotion. Scott Baker has been excellent. Kevin Slowey pitched a complete game shutout yesterday and seems to finished with his short slump from a couple weeks ago. Nick Blackburn and Glen Perkins have both consistently given the team a chance to win games. Livan Hernandez has not been terribly effective overall, but he has eaten up innings and delivered Quality Starts in four of his past seven outings.

It seems fairly clear that none of these guys belongs in the minors, so one idea that has been brought up is moving someone to the bullpen. Perkins and Blackburn both have some experience as relievers, which is why their names have been mentioned most often as candidates to move to the 'pen. Yet, this doesn't seem like the best course of action. Blackburn has been a reliable starter for this team who is second on the rotation in innings with 127 and second in ERA at 3.69; Perkins has pitched 6+ innings in seven of his past eight starts and six of those have been Quality Starts.

In my opinion, the team's wisest course of action would be to place Hernandez in the bullpen, where he can replace Brian Bass. Hernandez would likely be just about as effective as Bass in the long relief role, and keeping him on the roster means he'll be available to make a spot start for should someone get injured or jump back into the rotation if the organization deems Liriano's inning load to be getting too high for his first year back after surgery.

Of course, the other option would be placing Liriano in the bullpen. As Aaron Gleeman wrote yesterday, the Twins' relief corps hasn't been particularly strong this year and the team lacks a truly dominant setup man in front of Joe Nathan. Liriano could potentially provide the power arm this bullpen has been needing. With that said, I don't think converting Liriano to a relief role at this point is a very good idea. He's still settling in after missing a full season and re-learning how to pitch with a new ligament in his elbow; somehow asking him to change roles in the middle of a major-league pennant race doesn't seem like the best choice. Also, when throwing in short stints late in close games, there's a good chance Liriano would over-exert himself, which is a dangerous proposition considering his elbow history.

Keeping Liriano in Rochester at this point is wasteful. He's too good to be pitching down there, and the Twins could use his assistance as they pursue the White Sox in the AL Central. Unfortunately, finding a way to get him onto the big-league roster is not as clear-cut as one might like. I know what I'd do, but I'm sure the Twins view things differently. It should be interesting to see how they get Liriano onto their roster, and how soon they are able to do so.

27 comments:

WV said...

This is pure speculation, but then, what isn't?

Maybe the Twins are keeping Liriano down simply to prove a point, with the grievance proceedings and whatnot.

The saner conjecture is that maybe Livan/Boof is on the trading block and they are waiting until after Thursday in the case that a spot opens up in either the bullpen or the rotation without having to outright release somebody.

TT said...

Maybe the Twins are keeping Liriano down simply to prove a point

There is very little reason to think that is the case. The reality is that they don't have room for Liriano now. The Twins will likely need another starter before the end of the year and Liriano will be it.

's entirely possible that Liriano would be superior to all of them


Its also entirely possible he will be worse than whatever pitcher he replaces. Not only can't you expect him to be the pitcher he was two years ago (not many pitchers are that good for very long), its not guaranteed that he won't struggle against major league hitters. While the learning curve may be shorter, Liriano is essentially going to have to learn how he can get major league hitters out all over again.

Demoting Hernandez to the bullpen would be idiotic. His value is his ability to pitch deep into games. He has almost zero value in the bullpen. That ability to go deep into games will likely become more important as the younger pitchers start to feel the effects of their first full season in the big leagues.

Josh said...

Livan's "value" is in his ability to suck up innings. He can do that in mop-up/long-relief almost as well as he can as a starter. Bass is basically useless.

Nick M. said...

Demoting Liriano can't be considered "idiotic." The fact is that Livan, the innings-eater, eats innings while struggling against major league hitters. The more innings he pitches, the more runs he is going to give up. It is pretty simple, so why not move him to a low-leverage role that utilize his only real skill at this point; sucking up innings in the mop-up role. If you think that is so wrong, then might as well advocate to trade Hernandez.

Liriano will probably not be 2006 good, but he doesn't need to be to be more valuable in the starting rotation than Hernandez. You may say that Liriano will not go as deep into ballgames, but if he struggles through five innings and gives up some runs, isn't that the point in having Hernandez in that role anyways?

SoCalTwinsfan said...

Livan won't be going to the bullpen because his contract has escalator clauses for innings pitched and he's about to start reaching those. Now there would be a legitimate grievance by his agent, who I believe is also Liriano's agent. I'm expecting either Blackburn or Perkins to get moved to the bullpen because of lack of seniority and because the Twins would want to keep their innings down.

TT said...

He can do that in mop-up/long-relief almost as well as he can as a starter.

The last time I looked, mop-up pitchers don't pitch complete games.

Bass is basically useless.

In June, Bass had a 2.45 ERA while pitching 18.1 innings, giving up 16 hits and three walks. With the exception of one bad outing, he has done about the same in July. The Twins could use more "useless" performances like that.

The more innings he pitches, the more runs he is going to give up. It is pretty simple,

Why would getting batters out lead to him giving up more runs? Some people seem to have confused innings pitched as a measure of inputs, instead of production. But innings pitched measures how many outs a pitcher produced. It is a result. Pitches are the input.

The Twins knew what they were getting in Livan, an innings eater. As long as he produces 21 outs every game, he is doing his job. And his win-loss record demonstrates the value of that ability.

Greg said...

Having too many pitchers is a nice problem. What could we get for, say, Perkins in the way of prospects or other goodies?

Twin #1 said...

Why would getting batters out lead to him giving up more runs?

Any pitcher will give up more runs as he gets more batters out aka pitches more innings. If his ERA is 5.31, on average he'll give up 5.31 runs per nine innings (or per 27 batters he gets out). There's no conceivable reason that this will suddenly improve, which means he will most likely continue pitching many innings while allowing many more runs than most pitchers would in those innings.

Now there would be a legitimate grievance by his agent, who I believe is also Liriano's agent.

If Hernandez was good, maybe. But he hasn't been good at all. Out of 46 pitchers in the AL who qualify for the ERA title, he ranks 42nd in ERA, 45th in WHIP, 44th in OppOBP, 45th in K/9, and dead last in OppAVG, OppSLG, and H/9. Now how would his agent argue that the Twins are demoting him solely to avoid paying him bonuses and not because of his performance, especially when they are trying to find room for someone currently dominating AAA who dominated the Majors two years ago? Asserting that would be completely ridiculous.

The last time I looked, mop-up pitchers don't pitch complete games.

Yes, but an eight inning complete game in which you allow 5 ER on 12 hits and 3 walks is not a good outing. His ERA for that game was 5.63 and his WHIP was 1.88. So yes, I want him in the bullpen pitching in a mop-up role because his "value" of going deep into games is not valuable if he's going deep into games and pitching poorly. If he's in a mop-up role he'll be pitching less (a good thing when he's not a good pitcher) and be pitching mostly in games that are already out of reach (also a good thing).

Twin #1 said...

Also, I really don't think the Twins will actually put Livan in the bullpen, but that's just what I think would be best for the team (unless they can find a taker for him).

Nick N. said...

Livan won't be going to the bullpen because his contract has escalator clauses for innings pitched and he's about to start reaching those. Now there would be a legitimate grievance by his agent, who I believe is also Liriano's agent. I'm expecting either Blackburn or Perkins to get moved to the bullpen because of lack of seniority and because the Twins would want to keep their innings down.

How would that grievance have any legitimacy? Dude has a 5.31 ERA, including 6.62 over his past 12 starts. This idea that a team can't promote their minor-leaguers or demote a struggling starter whenever the hell they want to is incredibly stupid.

The last time I looked, mop-up pitchers don't pitch complete games.

No, but if Hernandez's greatest asset is his ability to eat up innings, I'd have to imagine that his doing so as a reliever would offset any extra workload placed on the bullpen by his absence in the rotation. The Twins don't play close games every day, he'd be able to get plenty of work there and keep other relievers' workload manageable.

In June, Bass had a 2.45 ERA while pitching 18.1 innings, giving up 16 hits and three walks. With the exception of one bad outing, he has done about the same in July. The Twins could use more "useless" performances like that.

They are getting plenty of performances like that. Let's play the same game with every other Twins' reliever. Jesse Crain had a 1.35 ERA in June, if we take away his worst outing this month it's 2.46 in July. Matt Guerrier had a 3.55 ERA in June, if we take away his worst outing this month it's 0.90 in July. Craig Breslow had a 0.00 ERA in June, if we take away his worst outing this month it's 1.69 in July. Dennys Reyes had a 1.50 ERA in June, if we take away his worst outing this month it's 4.90 in July.

Every other Twins reliever has had a better measure of success over the same period, the difference being that most of the other guys have been a lot more effective overall. I think you overestimate how difficult it is to put together decent stretches of good performance out of the bullpen, particularly when you're consistently being used in the types of low-leverage situations that Bass is. As much as I don't care for Hernandez, I don't think he'd have much trouble replacing Bass' contributions in the bullpen.

Having too many pitchers is a nice problem. What could we get for, say, Perkins in the way of prospects or other goodies?

Perkins as a starting point could probably net a pretty nice package (say, Beltre), but I'm on record as saying I don't think the Twins can afford to deal away any of their controllable young pitchers right now.

The Twins knew what they were getting in Livan, an innings eater. As long as he produces 21 outs every game, he is doing his job. And his win-loss record demonstrates the value of that ability.

Or it reflects the fact that he's pitched more games than anyone else. Hernandez has earned a win in 45 percent of his starts, Perkins 47 percent, Baker and Slowey 44 percent. The idea that Hernandez is some sort of perpetual winner is downright false and probably should be dropped.

toby said...

Look at the inherited runners numbers. (epsn, stats by team, click on the individual Twins relievers, then "stats", bottom line.) The only Twins reliever other than Nathan (who Gardy never gives inherited runners to, for some reason, but who allowed both of his this year to score) with a worse rate of allowing inherited runners to score than Bass is Reyes (fuel to the fire?), who's allowed 12 of 39 vs. 11 of 39 for Bass. Reyes's (and all the other relievers) other numbers are SO much better I can't see how Bass isn't far and away the worst in the bullpen. He does one thing better than avereage -- induce groundballs -- but he can't srike anybody out, has average control and will as such always be eminently hittable.

Great job with the "take away this one bad outing in July" stat job, Nick.

As far as Livan, look at how lucky he's been not to have FAR WORSE numbers. Here are some Walk-Hit totals vs. runs from the "innings eater" that make him look luck-luck-lucky indeed. (Note that I'm not talking about his worst starts. That's not my point here. My point is to show how lucky so many of his fair to good starts have been.)
11 WH in 6 IP, 3ER
8 WH in 7 IP, 0ER
10 WH in 7 IP, 1 ER
10 WH in 9 IP, 1 ER
11 WH in 6 IP, 3 ER
12 WH in 5.1 IP, 5 ER
13 H in 6 IP, 6 ER
14 WH in 6 IP, 5 ER
10 WH in 7 IP, 3 ER
11 WH in 7 IP, 4 ER
8 WH in 6 IP, 3 ER
15 WH in 8 IP, 5 ER

Look at those numbers. There are two possibilities: (1) The number of hits a pitcher will give up in a given outing is preordained and pitchers' skill consists in sprinkling those hits around so as to do minimal damage, a skill at which Livan excels; (2) Pitchers have a given number of doubleplay groundballs they can induce at will throughout a game EVEN WHEN they otherwise generate an average or slightly below average number of groundballs, and Livan knows when to press the magic button to make this happen; (3) Livan Hernandez, despite sucking the bag, has been incredibly lucky not to have much, much higher earned run totals than he does based on his off-the-charts, sub-MLB-quality hittability.

I'm gonna go with number 3.

TT said...

Any pitcher will give up more runs as he gets more batters out aka pitches more innings.

Slowey didn't yesterday. You give up runs by not getting people out, not because you do.

Let's play the same game with every other Twins' reliever.

"Every other"? What happened to Boof Bonser and Juan Rincon? And why did you leave off innings pitched? Bass pitched 18.1 innings in June. Crain was the next closest reliever pitching 13.1 and throwing only 11 fewer pitches than Bass. That "useless" Bass got almost as many outs in June as Reyes and Guerrier combined.

Perkins 47 percent, Baker and Slowey 44 percent.

And Blackburn even fewer, but I doubt anyone thinks their records reflect their inning eating ability.

Its pretty obvious Livan is not going to be as effective over 5 innings as those guys usually are. The question with them is how many outs they can get before wearing out and how much burden will they put on the bullpen. That is much less a question with Livan.

TT said...

Here are some Walk-Hit totals vs. runs from the "innings eater"

Who cares? The idea that every hit has the same value is obviously absurd.

Lets be clear, the other day Hernandez gave up 5 runs in the first inning. He then proceeded to shut the other team down for seven innings and gave his team a chance to win. The next day Baker went 5 innings and a fresh bullpen helped the Twins win the game. Those are not unrelated events.

toby said...

Of course it is. Straw man. And sometimes EVERY pitcher will post a lucky line like some of those. But over time, nobody can sustain that. Over time, if you're THAT hittable you're going to give up a LOT more runs than he gave up on those fair-good innings-eating outings.

The idea that a pitcher can pick and choose when to walk batters and give up hitters is the more relevant absurdity. Hernandez's run totals reflect an incredibly lucky distribution of baserunners and an incredibly lucky distribution of doubleplay groundballs. He will only get away with it for so long. Will I be happy if "so long" includes the next two months and the play offs? Of course. But I will know it was one of the luckiest, most undeserved championship seasons in the history of baseball.

Best case scenario: Hernandez gives up like 7 runs in the first and/or second inning Wednesday and is pulled after putting two or three more on base; Boof comes in and gets the needed strikeout, then goes 4 strong innings while the Twins stage a comeback. They win, Livan is finally shown to be the hack he is, everybody's (save tt) happy.

Finally: given that Bass is supposed to be the long reliever, I'm not following the relevance of stating that he pitched the most innings in June. Do you even consider whether what other people say might be correct? Nick pointed out how silly it is to pick out a guy's best month, then take another month and take out the worst performance there and point to those two (er... one plus) months as some sort of measurement of performance. It would be one thing if Bass showed steady improvement. But he hasn't. His K/BB rates have been stable all year. He's not quality and the Twins would be better off taking a chance on Barrett or Hawkins than sticking with proven mediocrity ('cause even your cherrypicked numbers are by no means excellent).

toby said...

"Of course it is" referred to "The idea that every hit has the same value is obviously absurd."

Dan said...

ive read more about livan hernandez on this blog the last few days then i ever care to know.

to give some more rest to our bullpen, i say we package two seperate deals in which we part ways with liriano and slowey and maybee blackburn and acquire ubber "innings eaters" jamie moyer and carlos silva back in return.

that should take us to the next level.

Nick N. said...

"Every other"? What happened to Boof Bonser and Juan Rincon? And why did you leave off innings pitched? Bass pitched 18.1 innings in June. Crain was the next closest reliever pitching 13.1 and throwing only 11 fewer pitches than Bass. That "useless" Bass got almost as many outs in June as Reyes and Guerrier combined.

I meant to say every other middle reliever who gets usage similar to Bass, didn't think you'd go into nit-pick mode (should have known better). Bonser is a converted starter who has been used almost exclusively in mop-up situations, Rincon is no longer with the team, and Nathan is the closer.

As Toby correctly notes, it's silly to give Bass credit for pitching more innings considering that is his role.

Its pretty obvious Livan is not going to be as effective over 5 innings as those guys usually are. The question with them is how many outs they can get before wearing out and how much burden will they put on the bullpen. That is much less a question with Livan.

Yep, because those younger guys are routinely throwing only five innings per game. I just love how you take an isolated example and build your argument around it. To be clear, Baker worked 6+ innings in eight consecutive outings prior to that last start. He had also thrown 7+ in three consecutive outings, which matches Hernandez's season-high for such a stretch.

TT said...

Over time

Over time, we are all going to die.

The idea that a pitcher can pick and choose when to walk batters and give up hitters is the more relevant absurdity.

"pick and choose"? No. But they certainly have some control over both.

More to the point. Hits in bunches do more damages than hits spread out over the game. And the pitcher has some control over that as well.

given that Bass is supposed to be the long reliever, I'm not following the relevance of stating that he pitched the most innings in June.

Why isn't it relevant? Bass made as many appearances as any other pitcher. If they got the same results, isn't the one who gets more outs more valuable? Bass also threw about the same number of pitches while getting 50% more outs.

Nick pointed out how silly it is to pick out a guy's best month, then take another month and take out the worst performance there and point to those two

Actually - looking at the most recent two months of a rookie player usually gives you a better understanding of their current value than how well they did the first two months of the season.

take out the worst performance there

In fact, removing outliers is important with averages in a small dataset to avoid letting one data point distort the result. Can it be abused? Yes. But I don't think I did in this case. Bass had one outing which was an aberration given the rest of his performances over the last two months.

His K/BB rates have been stable all year.

That is flat out untrue:
April 8K 6BB
May 8K 8BB
June 8K 3BB
July 5K 4BB

If you are going to abuse statistics, it helps if you at least look stuff up.

toby said...

Rates. Not raw numbers. BB/K%: April 7.5/10 May 10/10 June 4.3/11.6 July 8.7/10.9.

So I stand corrected. His K rate has been an absolute rock (almost impossibly so, considering the tiny sample size of one month in a relief pitcher's season) and his walk rate has fluctuated mildly around average. You're not even going to address the substance of anything anyone's saying, are you?

toby said...

Wow. I didn't even read the rest I was so ticked by your misreading of what I said about K/BB rates.

You seriously believe a pitcher has control over WHEN guys get the hits off him. "I think I'll take it easy this hitter, but I'm actually gonna try on the next one so I don't give up 'hits in bunches'." Right.

Twin #1 said...

Hits in bunches do more damages than hits spread out over the game. And the pitcher has some control over that as well.

If the pitcher can control whether he gives up a hit or not, why does he ever choose to give up a hit?
Or are you saying Livan knows how many hits he will give up in a given start and chooses to place them so as to allow the fewest runs? Or does Livan have some sort of ability to pick up his game when runners get on base, you know, because before that he wasn't really trying to get guys out?

And yes, Slowey pitched a 9 inning complete game. But what I meant was, if the same pitcher throws 200 innings versus 20, in which span would you expect him to allow more runs? Or even in 200 innings versus 180? And if there's no expectation for improvement (as I think we can all agree with Livan, there is not), won't he continue giving up runs at a rate of 5.31 per nine innings (or worse)? So wouldn't we want to limit the number of innings he pitches?

TT said...

didn't even read the rest I was so ticked by your misreading of what I said about K/BB rates.


I didn't "misread" anything, you misrepresented the data.

If the pitcher can control whether he gives up a hit or not, why does he ever choose to give up a hit?

If a pitcher has no control over whether he gives up a hit, why do we care who the pitcher is? I think its pretty obvious we are talking about limited "control" in both cases.

You seriously believe a pitcher has control over WHEN guys get the hits off him.

Of course they do. Part of pitching is working hitters so that they have something different to show a hitter when they really need it. That's why pitchers have "out" pitches that they throw in situations where they need it. What's crazy is the notion that players take the same random approach regardless of the game situation.

does Livan have some sort of ability to pick up his game when runners get on base, you know, because before that he wasn't really trying to get guys out?

I know of no athletic endeavor where players always play at the maximum they are capable of. Athletes do step up their game under pressure. And I am sure Livan, and every other major league player, is no exception.

if the same pitcher throws 200 innings versus 20, in which span would you expect him to allow more runs? Or even in 200 innings versus 180?

The point is this is the same as saying "if the same pitcher struck out 200 batters versus 20, in which span would you expect him to allow more runs? Or even in 200 strikeouts versus 180?"

Innings pitched is a measure of the number of outs a pitcher got. It is not a "span" of time or effort. Outs don't just happen, they are the result of a productive effort. And very few results actually go up in lockstep.

It is also clear that the same effort often brings different results. Most Twins pitchers throw about 100 pitches per game. Yet one game Baker gets 21 batters out and the next start he only gets 15.

Nick N. said...

Athletes do step up their game under pressure. And I am sure Livan, and every other major league player, is no exception.

Opponents vs. Livan Hernandez (per B-R.com)
"Low Leverage": .319/.360/.451
"Medium Leverage": .344/.362/.522
"High Leverage": .360/.374/.558

Bases Empty: .308/.345/.457
Runners On: .372/.384/.552
RISP: .343/.351/.511
"Close & Late": .409/.391/.591

Sounds like he really steps it up.

toby said...

Um... how did I misrepresent the data? Because Bass's numbers weren't absolutely identical every month? Bass's strikeout rate has been so stable it's practically a statistical anomaly given the tiny sample size of a month of relief work, and his BB rate has fluctuated mildly around its average. Assuming these rate-style numbers are new to you (and that's perfectly ok -- I used to pay lots of attention to ERA and Wins and such, too), understand that MLB guys with at least 10 appearances this year vary from 1.3% to 20.3% BB/PA on the year. So it ain't like Bass's numbers swung wildly in that kinda spectrum but happened to average 7.6%. His numbers of 7.5, 10, 4.3 and 8.7 are, given the tiny sample size, all in the same ballpark. The 4.3 represents the furthest deviation of any of the 8 data points (4 months, 2 rates per month) and it is exactly 2 walks short of being absolutely average. Small. Sample. Size. I'll just say again that the monthly numbers are, as I said, stable, in the (relavent) relative sense. If you weren't so concerned with nitpicking and being right and instead decided to be charitable to those you undoubtedly see as your "opponents" you might learn something interesting about something you obviously do love.

By the way, I see that the league average this year is actually down a bit to about 7%, so in fact Bass's BB rate has fluctuated normally around a point slightly higher (worse) than average. I was being too charitable to him before.

Hey, did you notice that saving those two baserunners to get that 4.3% number happened in JUNE. You know, the month you keep highlighting as the only true measure of his skills? So the one month he walked literally TWO less batters than per his full year average is his best month, and yet you discount the importance of BB and K rate versus wins and innings and (presumably) ERA. I'd think that tiny little number would make you a believer in DIPS, given your love for the rule being buried in the exception. (This is a joke, although walking two less batter obviously helped him.)

No one is arguing that a pitcher has no control over when he gives up a hit. But that control consists overwhelmingly in the following: Everybody concedes that pitchers give up varying levels of groundballs and flyballs -- the former become hits more, the latter home runs more. Everyone concedes pitchers can strike out varying numbers of hitters. This obviously affects the numbers of hits they give up and their Opponent Batting Average. But the ability of non-junkballing MLB quality pitchers to affect BALLS IN PLAY (that is, non-home run batted balls) is minimal, especially compared to most people's (including your) expectations. Guys at the extreme high and extreme low end of their profession, generally as measured by having excellent control (BB rate) and nasty stuff (K rate) do show slight year-to-year tendencies in this regard, at least given enough data points. (Given just a few years their OBABIPs will look pretty random).

Nick: hilarious (and right on) stuff on the leverage numbers. If Livan wasn't just lucky and could raise his game, what would we see? STRIKEOUTS in pressure situations. Which we don't. We just see a hittable guy getting very lucky with his hit distribution on many, many occasions and getting absolutely destroyed on the occasions when he doesn't get lucky (leading to the horrible overall numbers).

Anonymous said...

It's funny to watch the trade talks and teams on the verge of the playoffs clamboring for two things:

1) a strong starting pitcher
2) a power hitter

The Twins don't need to do this. Why? Because Liriano is as good, if not better, than any starting pitcher that is available on the trading block. This team needs a simple push to put them over the edge, and he'd provide it.

Don't get me wrong. I love Gardy as our manager. But I'm sick of his tendencies for an over-allegiance to players because he likes their role in the clubhouse. Livan's expectedrole is a mentor to the pitchers. But I'd be hard pressed to find a single person who wants him on the mound over any of our other 4 pitchers, or Liriano, for that matter.

His demotion to the bullpen should come ASAP. His role as "mentor" won't be diminished, and he'd get the innings he deserves in blowout games, injury-induced long innings, and spot starts.

Which brings me to another point. How has Monroe remained on our roster, while Span finally sees his chance with Cuddyer out? Will Gardy see the light and demote Monroe when Cuddy comes back? Or will his allegiance to a DH hitting below .200 get in the way?

Anonymous said...

酒店經紀人,
菲梵酒店經紀,
酒店經紀,
禮服酒店上班,
酒店小姐兼職,
便服酒店經紀,
酒店打工經紀,
制服酒店工作,
專業酒店經紀,
合法酒店經紀,
酒店暑假打工,
酒店寒假打工,
酒店經紀人,
菲梵酒店經紀,
酒店經紀,
禮服酒店上班,
酒店經紀人,
菲梵酒店經紀,
酒店經紀,
禮服酒店上班,
酒店小姐兼職,
便服酒店工作,
酒店打工經紀,
制服酒店經紀,
專業酒店經紀,
合法酒店經紀,
酒店暑假打工,
酒店寒假打工,
酒店經紀人,
菲梵酒店經紀,
酒店經紀,
禮服酒店上班,
酒店小姐兼職,
便服酒店工作,
酒店打工經紀,
制服酒店經紀,
酒店經紀,

,

Anonymous said...

酒店經紀,
酒店工作,
酒店上班,
酒店打工,
禮服酒店,
禮服公關,
酒店領檯,
華麗幻想,
夢世界,
酒店經紀,
酒店工作,
酒店上班,
酒店打工,
禮服酒店,
禮服公關,
酒店領檯,
華麗幻想,
夢世界,
酒店經紀,
酒店工作,
酒店上班,
酒店打工,
禮服酒店,
禮服公關,
酒店領檯,
華麗幻想,
夢世界,