tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11215059.post9037039680869958106..comments2023-12-19T20:25:36.069-06:00Comments on Nick's Twins Blog: No Longer a BridesmaidNick N.http://www.blogger.com/profile/00848574337121154690noreply@blogger.comBlogger39125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11215059.post-21042783377898777512010-11-24T08:47:31.913-06:002010-11-24T08:47:31.913-06:00"high minded and results oriented"
soun..."high minded and results oriented"<br /><br />sounds like a BS resume.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11215059.post-55759396343338699752010-11-23T00:06:06.003-06:002010-11-23T00:06:06.003-06:00Whatever, I may be wrong on Madden. You are right...Whatever, I may be wrong on Madden. You are right, I don't watch even close to a fair amount of Rays games. The ones I have watched impressed me. So let me rephrase; I would love to have a manager that does things like I have seen Madden do that are high minded and results oriented.<br /><br />As to you picking a fight over words I didn't say, I am going to end this. I didn't say Madden invented that move. I didn't even allude to it. My exact words were "His bullpen management is great, and he even tries some non traditional stuff. For instance..." Now if you want to read “tries” as “invented”, that’s your prerogative. And if you want to argue that the move is indeed traditional, go ahead, I did in fact call it non traditional. Don't try to drag me into some semantic BS you invented in your mind. In the end I don’t give a crap how hard you squinted at my post to get the word “invented” to pop out of the magic eye pattern. Done.Davenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11215059.post-9908969705400665702010-11-22T21:07:40.440-06:002010-11-22T21:07:40.440-06:00No, (Madden) obviously didn't invent it. I nev...<i>No, (Madden) obviously didn't invent it. I never said he did.</i><br /><br />Really? Cause it sort of sounds like you're claiming he did, in fact, invent it:<br /><br /><i>That kind of stuff is on par with the defensive schemes of the Patriots in football and the nuetral zone trap when it was invented in the NHL.</i><br /><br />In any case, Madden's a good manager. But...visit any Rays blog and you'll see mountains of the same sort of short-sighted, uninformed criticisms of Madden you'll see on any Twins board regarding Gardy. "He can't handle a bullpen!!!" "He doesn't know how to manage in-game!!!" "He should've brought in reliever B instead of reliever A!!!"<br /><br />You think Madden was MOY? Fine. <br /><br />But I'd be willing to bet that you--like most fans--would be calling Madden an idiot after 75 games were you to watch him manage every game, like you do Gardenhire.USAFChiefnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11215059.post-81970136426894464972010-11-20T16:10:28.516-06:002010-11-20T16:10:28.516-06:00Chief, did you go through my comments for somethin...Chief, did you go through my comments for something to try and nitpick and that was the only thing you could find? No, he obviously didn't invent it. I never said he did. The point is that his managing is results oriented.Davenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11215059.post-12497383036049770712010-11-19T19:22:47.694-06:002010-11-19T19:22:47.694-06:00For instance, (Madden) put a righty in against a r...<i>For instance, (Madden) put a righty in against a righty, moved him to LF and put in a lefty, then subbed the lefty out for a LFielder and moved the righty back to the mound. That kind of stuff is on par with the defensive schemes of the Patriots in football and the nuetral zone trap when it was invented in the NHL. High minded and results oriented.</i><br /><br />Forgive me if I'm misinterpreting, but are you claiming Madden 'invented' this tactic?<br /><br />If so, you're wrong by multiple decades.USAFChiefnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11215059.post-47012301563239840982010-11-18T15:54:05.371-06:002010-11-18T15:54:05.371-06:00Sure, I'll conceed that possibility.
that'...<i>Sure, I'll conceed that possibility.</i><br /><br />that's all i was looking for. i don't think anyone in the organization is above criticism with the way they have played in the playoffs.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11215059.post-32457894384668620572010-11-18T15:45:19.377-06:002010-11-18T15:45:19.377-06:00Funny you mention Maddon, can't believe he did...Funny you mention Maddon, can't believe he didn't get more recognition this year. 1/3 the payroll of the Yanks (and about $30 mil less than the Twins) and he gets more wins than Gardy and beats the almighty Yanks in the toughest division in baseball. <br /><br />Gardy, on the other hand, wins because his team, who was supposed to win the crappy division and did win the crappy division, "endured" a loss of their closer which had zero impact on the team and also a 1/2 season when they had to replace their 1st baseman in the lineup with a first ballot hall of famer. It must've been tough pencilling in Thome's name every day.<br /><br />If Gardy had done what Maddon did in that division the Twinscentric crew would have annointed him the 2nd coming of Jesus. Instead we get another load of righteousness about Gardy "deserving it." Oh well, way to go Regular Season Ronnie.Polish Sausagenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11215059.post-54521320357044336432010-11-18T15:28:26.194-06:002010-11-18T15:28:26.194-06:00As far as Gardy goes I really dislike him as an in...As far as Gardy goes I really dislike him as an in game manager. My defense was based on some assumption that its his fault that the Twins can't beat the Yankees in the playoffs.<br /><br />Personally, I would love to have a manager like Maddon. His in game stuff is superb. His bullpen management is great, and he even tries some non traditional stuff. For instance, he put a righty in against a righty, moved him to LF and put in a lefty, then subbed the lefty out for a LFielder and moved the righty back to the mound. That kind of stuff is on par with the defensive schemes of the Patriots in football and the nuetral zone trap when it was invented in the NHL. High minded and results oriented.<br /><br />Gardy does not do this, period. But that doesn't apply to this complaint because he didn't make any in game errors during the Yankees series. The only post season flub he has made that I can remember was when he started Radke against the A's.<br /><br />What you guys are complaining about is some speculative phantasmal "thing" that Gardy is or is not doing that only causes failure only in the playoffs. Nobody seems to know what this "thing" is, and nobody even pretends to. When Gardy plays Punto because of an unseen undemonstrable "thing" that he has, it is an unreasonable move. When you call for Gardy to be replaced because of some "thing" it is a savvy understanding of team chemistry. How does this compute at all? <br /><br />If we even accept that there is some "thing" that makes teams win in the playoffs, how do we hire a manager that has it? Do we only chase after managers that have proven through results that they have it? And how do we know that other managers are winning championships in spite of a lack of this "thing"?Davenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11215059.post-35411808414431259512010-11-18T14:38:20.474-06:002010-11-18T14:38:20.474-06:00You honestly think the manager's job is strict...<i>You honestly think the manager's job is strictly in-game management and everything else is on the front office?</i><br /><br />No, but there's no reason to think Gardenhire's behind-the-scenes management is anything but excellent. Players like him and play hard for him. They stay out of trouble.<br /><br /><i>He's also one of the losingest managers in MLB postseason history. Please dont deny that.</i><br /><br />I'm not denying that. But I think many people pay way too much attention to that fact in assessing him as a manager.<br /><br /><i>Yes, most of the blame should be on the players, but you have to at least admit that there might be something in the preparation for the playoffs that could be lacking. </i><br /><br />Sure, I'll conceed that possibility. But I think any negative impact he has is relatively small and constantly overblown by fans looking for somewhere to hang their frustration. <br /><br />It seems like every time I make a positive post about him I get throngs of people complaining about his lack of postseason success. On this day, in which he has finally received some recognition for all of his winning, can't we just concentrate on the positives? There are a ton of them.Nick N.https://www.blogger.com/profile/00848574337121154690noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11215059.post-61034101696975892102010-11-18T13:17:49.712-06:002010-11-18T13:17:49.712-06:00I just don't see how you can completely dismis...I just don't see how you can completely dismiss any thought that Gardy has anything to do with the postseason failures. Yes, most of the blame should be on the players, but you have to at least admit that there <b>might</b> be something in the preparation for the playoffs that <b>could</b> be lacking. <br /><br />it is great to get to the playoffs every year, but eventually you have to at least entertain the notion that maybe at least some of the blame can go to gardy and maybe he isn't getting them adequately prepared for the big postseason series. or you can keep praying that the blind squirrel will eventually find the nut.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11215059.post-6789201732791153832010-11-18T13:11:48.214-06:002010-11-18T13:11:48.214-06:00"If true, then I believe that it's an iss..."If true, then I believe that it's an issue of organizational structure rather than in-game management."<br /><br />You honestly think the manager's job is strictly in-game management and everything else is on the front office?M-Dawgnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11215059.post-62532276559914832722010-11-18T13:09:46.076-06:002010-11-18T13:09:46.076-06:00A manager does more than in-game management!A manager does more than in-game management!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11215059.post-20935109142708465262010-11-18T13:06:03.752-06:002010-11-18T13:06:03.752-06:00"You can't deny the results -- he's t..."You can't deny the results -- he's the winningest manager in team history and he's made the playoffs six times in nine years."<br /><br />I completely agree. Nowhere do i disagree with you. He aboslutely deserves credit for the reg season achievements.<br /><br />He's also one of the losingest managers in MLB postseason history. Please dont deny that.M-Dawgnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11215059.post-19419579217768118732010-11-18T12:59:04.509-06:002010-11-18T12:59:04.509-06:00I think Seth intentionally misread the "Sprin...<i>I think Seth intentionally misread the "Sprint vs Marathon" opinion because one of the strengths the Yankees have going into the postseason is that every series against the Red Sox has such added attention that they get practice playing in stressful situations where the Twins are always calm and relaxed because there is always another game.</i><br /><br />The Twins have played tons of high-intensity regular-season games over the years. They've played in Game 163 twice over the past two years. They've had some epic series against divisional opponents with playoff-type atmospheres. Claiming that a team needs to be exposed to Yankee/Red Sox type national hype during the regular season in order to be prepared for the playoffs pretty much excludes every team in baseball except for those two.<br /><br />The Yankees are more comfortable playing on the big stage, sure. That happens when you are the most popular and media-hyped team in the country. It also happens when you can afford to fill your roster with experienced productive veterans.<br /><br /><i>If you add up the playoff failures plus the failures against the Yankees we find the sample size is not small and indicates a real problem and that problem is the Twins way does not translate into short periods of high stress.<br /></i><br /><br />If true, then I believe that it's an issue of organizational structure rather than in-game management. I just can't get on board with the notion that Gardenhire has some isolated weakness that prevents his teams from being able to beat one single team when the rosters for both those teams have varied dramatically over the last 10 years.<br /><br /><i>The chance of the Twins losing 12 straight games at these odds is %.21.</i><br /><br />You're right, the odds were low. But thousands of baseball games are played over the years and sometimes really unlikely things happen. Lengthy winning streaks and losing streaks, perfect games, etc. What were the statistical odds that the Twins would make the playoffs in June of '06? In late September of '09?Nick N.https://www.blogger.com/profile/00848574337121154690noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11215059.post-77653333649720053222010-11-18T12:59:01.650-06:002010-11-18T12:59:01.650-06:00I think Seth intentionally misread the "Sprin...<i>I think Seth intentionally misread the "Sprint vs Marathon" opinion because one of the strengths the Yankees have going into the postseason is that every series against the Red Sox has such added attention that they get practice playing in stressful situations where the Twins are always calm and relaxed because there is always another game.</i><br /><br />The Twins have played tons of high-intensity regular-season games over the years. They've played in Game 163 twice over the past two years. They've had some epic series against divisional opponents with playoff-type atmospheres. Claiming that a team needs to be exposed to Yankee/Red Sox type national hype during the regular season in order to be prepared for the playoffs pretty much excludes every team in baseball except for those two.<br /><br />The Yankees are more comfortable playing on the big stage, sure. That happens when you are the most popular and media-hyped team in the country. It also happens when you can afford to fill your roster with experienced productive veterans.<br /><br /><i>If you add up the playoff failures plus the failures against the Yankees we find the sample size is not small and indicates a real problem and that problem is the Twins way does not translate into short periods of high stress.<br /></i><br /><br />If true, then I believe that it's an issue of organizational structure rather than in-game management. I just can't get on board with the notion that Gardenhire has some isolated weakness that prevents his teams from being able to beat one single team when the rosters for both those teams have varied dramatically over the last 10 years.<br /><br /><i>The chance of the Twins losing 12 straight games at these odds is %.21.</i><br /><br />You're right, the odds were low. But thousands of baseball games are played over the years and sometimes really unlikely things happen. Lengthy winning streaks and losing streaks, perfect games, etc. What were the statistical odds that the Twins would make the playoffs in June of '06? In late September of '09?Nick N.https://www.blogger.com/profile/00848574337121154690noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11215059.post-45412622999776284432010-11-18T12:58:58.753-06:002010-11-18T12:58:58.753-06:00I think Seth intentionally misread the "Sprin...<i>I think Seth intentionally misread the "Sprint vs Marathon" opinion because one of the strengths the Yankees have going into the postseason is that every series against the Red Sox has such added attention that they get practice playing in stressful situations where the Twins are always calm and relaxed because there is always another game.</i><br /><br />The Twins have played tons of high-intensity regular-season games over the years. They've played in Game 163 twice over the past two years. They've had some epic series against divisional opponents with playoff-type atmospheres. Claiming that a team needs to be exposed to Yankee/Red Sox type national hype during the regular season in order to be prepared for the playoffs pretty much excludes every team in baseball except for those two.<br /><br />The Yankees are more comfortable playing on the big stage, sure. That happens when you are the most popular and media-hyped team in the country. It also happens when you can afford to fill your roster with experienced productive veterans.<br /><br /><i>If you add up the playoff failures plus the failures against the Yankees we find the sample size is not small and indicates a real problem and that problem is the Twins way does not translate into short periods of high stress.<br /></i><br /><br />If true, then I believe that it's an issue of organizational structure rather than in-game management. I just can't get on board with the notion that Gardenhire has some isolated weakness that prevents his teams from being able to beat one single team when the rosters for both those teams have varied dramatically over the last 10 years.<br /><br /><i>The chance of the Twins losing 12 straight games at these odds is %.21.</i><br /><br />You're right, the odds were low. But thousands of baseball games are played over the years and sometimes really unlikely things happen. Lengthy winning streaks and losing streaks, perfect games, etc. What were the statistical odds that the Twins would make the playoffs in June of '06? In late September of '09?Nick N.https://www.blogger.com/profile/00848574337121154690noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11215059.post-28176156806024308772010-11-18T12:49:23.000-06:002010-11-18T12:49:23.000-06:00There like the dictators of the Twins blogosphere....<i>There like the dictators of the Twins blogosphere. Just give up now cuz those guys wont ever let it go.</i><br /><br />I put my opinions out there for everyone to read. People disagree with them. I disagree back. Discourse happens and knowledge is gained. I don't really understand what your gripe is.<br /><br /><i>The twins lost in the playoff because they went cold for 3 games, they won in the regular season because they had better players than the rest of the division.</i><br /><br />Good comment, and it summarizes my feelings pretty well. I don't think Gardenhire is the reason for the Twins' success, but the key point is that he doesn't get in the way of it. That's what makes him an effective manager and one deserving of this (maybe arbitrary) award. <br /><br />The point you're missing is that quite often the team with better players than the rest of the division does not make the playoffs. That doesn't really happen under Gardy.<br /><br /><i>Gardy doesn't swing the bat in the reg season either, though, but that doesnt stop you guys from declaring his greatness.</i><br /><br />"Declaring his greatness"? How am I supposed to respond to your arguments when you exaggerate my viewpoint like that? I don't think Gardenhire is some genius who has masterminded this team's success, but you can't deny the results -- he's the winningest manager in team history and he's made the playoffs six times in nine years. All I'm saying is that on the list of things the Twins need to worry about, their manager is near the very bottom.Nick N.https://www.blogger.com/profile/00848574337121154690noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11215059.post-52996920759278327352010-11-18T12:48:02.715-06:002010-11-18T12:48:02.715-06:00Let's assume that in each of the past 12 losse...Let's assume that in each of the past 12 losses the Twins were overmatched and their opponent had a %60 chance of winning the game. The chance of the Twins losing 12 straight games at these odds is %.21. Since this is so statistically improbable you must begin looking at reasons it is happening. The players have changed over the streak but Gardy hasn't so it is reasonable to put at least a portion of the blame on Gardy.<br /><br />I think Seth intentionally misread the "Sprint vs Marathon" opinion because one of the strengths the Yankees have going into the postseason is that every series against the Red Sox has such added attention that they get practice playing in stressful situations where the Twins are always calm and relaxed because there is always another game. I wrote this as a comment in one of Seth's entries (http://talkintwinsbb.wordpress.com/2010/11/02/twins-offseason-blueprint/):<br /><br />"I would add a move that is not roster related but instead goes to the heart of the playoff failures and that move would be for someone in the organization to play the bad guy and put pressure on the team to win a series against the Yankees in the regular season. I think either Bill Smith or Dave St. Peter needs to come out before the season and state:<br /><br />“I like the guys on this team but if this team cannot become competetive against the Yankees during the regular season I will need to re-evaluate the roster. I am instructing Ron Gardenhire to treat the 2 series against the Yankees like a playoff series and the organization will be embaressed if this roster that consists of numerous all-stars and a payroll of over $100 million dollars cannot compete against the Yankees.”<br /><br />I think this teams needs to learn how to play under stress and they need an artificial sense of urgency added to a series or two during the regular season to better prepare for the playoffs."<br /><br />If you add up the playoff failures plus the failures against the Yankees we find the sample size is not small and indicates a real problem and that problem is the Twins way does not translate into short periods of high stress.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02938788014778471934noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11215059.post-7467408732083222592010-11-18T12:12:04.308-06:002010-11-18T12:12:04.308-06:00Gardy doesn't swing the bat in the reg season ...Gardy doesn't swing the bat in the reg season either, though, but that doesnt stop you guys from declaring his greatness.M-Dawgnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11215059.post-68105724674065780392010-11-18T12:09:42.798-06:002010-11-18T12:09:42.798-06:00"If Gardenhire's management is so deeply ..."If Gardenhire's management is so deeply flawed, why has he been so successful in the regular season?" <br />Because he has talented players? This award is so meaningless and might as well be a team award. If gardenhire were the manager of the royals he probably be about to get fired. Gardy doesnt deserve much blame for playoff failure or much praise for regular season success. Ultimately the decision making of the manager is completely overshadowed by the play of the players. And the intangibles are really unmeasurable because its impossible to say what the true w-l total of the team would have been independent of the manager. So this award is always going to team with the most wins or a team that surpassed their arbitrary expected win total. No one should care about this award. And speculating on gardy as a manager as playing a significant role in the success and failure of the team is sill too. The twins lost in the playoff because they went cold for 3 games, they won in the regular season because they had better players than the rest of the division.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11215059.post-55367036325492210412010-11-18T12:08:43.742-06:002010-11-18T12:08:43.742-06:00"There would have to be something in these po..."There would have to be something in these postseason failures that actually indicates Gardenhire is doing something wrong. What we have now is a string of mostly close losses hallmarked by a lack of big pitching performances and big hits. The man can't go out there and swing the bat."<br /><br />This.<br /><br />My intent wasn't to go after "M-Dawg" specifically at all. He just is the one who isn't hiding behind "Anonymous." And my question, I think, is legit. What should Gardy do differently in the playoffs? What exactly should be done? I truly don't know the answer to that, and until someone tells me something that could be proven, it's hard for me to blame him. I find it hard to find fault with any managerial things that Gardy did in that three game series.SethSpeakshttp://www.SethSpeaks.netnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11215059.post-14817700714570536992010-11-18T12:07:21.930-06:002010-11-18T12:07:21.930-06:00What indicates to you that Gardy is doing somethin...What indicates to you that Gardy is doing something right in the reg season?M-Dawgnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11215059.post-24350290933979673652010-11-18T12:03:42.781-06:002010-11-18T12:03:42.781-06:00Anon and mdawg, not sharing the same opinion as th...Anon and mdawg, not sharing the same opinion as the Twinscentric guys is liable to get you destroyed in their comments sections. There like the dictators of the Twins blogosphere. Just give up now cuz those guys wont ever let it go.Dr. Truthnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11215059.post-31607672949216356512010-11-18T11:57:25.413-06:002010-11-18T11:57:25.413-06:00There would have to be something in these postseas...There would have to be something in these postseason failures that actually indicates Gardenhire is doing something wrong. What we have now is a string of mostly close losses hallmarked by a lack of big pitching performances and big hits. The man can't go out there and swing the bat.Nick N.https://www.blogger.com/profile/00848574337121154690noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11215059.post-21451808880998612122010-11-18T11:57:06.447-06:002010-11-18T11:57:06.447-06:00jeez you guys are jumping all over mdawg here. i ...jeez you guys are jumping all over mdawg here. i love gardy myself, but to be fair its not like the guys saying gardy's terrible or should be fired. you guys are just too sensitive about gardy. how about a little objectivity.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com